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	<title>Comments on: Mulling Over Feedback from a Law-Firm In-House Seminar</title>
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		<title>By: Gil</title>
		<link>http://www.adamsdrafting.com/2009/01/14/feedback-from-in-house-seminar/comment-page-1/#comment-80045</link>
		<dc:creator>Gil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jan 2009 13:01:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adamsdrafting.com/2009/01/14/feedback-from-in-house-seminar/#comment-80045</guid>
		<description>Ken, I happen to agree with what Anonymous Pest says in his first paragraph. The imperative to uphold jargon and &#039;lawyerspeak&#039; is absolutely linked to billing fees. This observation is based on my experience as a Solicitor and a legal trainer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken, I happen to agree with what Anonymous Pest says in his first paragraph. The imperative to uphold jargon and &#8216;lawyerspeak&#8217; is absolutely linked to billing fees. This observation is based on my experience as a Solicitor and a legal trainer.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Hertz</title>
		<link>http://www.adamsdrafting.com/2009/01/14/feedback-from-in-house-seminar/comment-page-1/#comment-79689</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Hertz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 02:32:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adamsdrafting.com/2009/01/14/feedback-from-in-house-seminar/#comment-79689</guid>
		<description>Most of the work I do is in telecom, and I have had several sets of documents come back with redlines inserting all the &quot;lawyer talk&quot; MSCD abhors, adding, sometimes, multiple pages to what I thought was a complete document.  These are mostly inhouse (corporate) counsel, although some large, private lawfirms have performed the same kind of Frankenstein-like surgery. 

Disclaimer - I am a lawyer, though I am really a part owner of the business and technically not &quot;practicing law&quot; in the traditional sense.

Disclaimer 2 - The world of telecom agreements is a bit bizarre anyway, with lots of technical stuff, and the creaking legacy of a crumbling regulatory environment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most of the work I do is in telecom, and I have had several sets of documents come back with redlines inserting all the &#8220;lawyer talk&#8221; MSCD abhors, adding, sometimes, multiple pages to what I thought was a complete document.  These are mostly inhouse (corporate) counsel, although some large, private lawfirms have performed the same kind of Frankenstein-like surgery. </p>
<p>Disclaimer &#8211; I am a lawyer, though I am really a part owner of the business and technically not &#8220;practicing law&#8221; in the traditional sense.</p>
<p>Disclaimer 2 &#8211; The world of telecom agreements is a bit bizarre anyway, with lots of technical stuff, and the creaking legacy of a crumbling regulatory environment.</p>
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		<title>By: AdamsDrafting &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Prospects for Change</title>
		<link>http://www.adamsdrafting.com/2009/01/14/feedback-from-in-house-seminar/comment-page-1/#comment-79516</link>
		<dc:creator>AdamsDrafting &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Prospects for Change</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Jan 2009 17:51:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adamsdrafting.com/2009/01/14/feedback-from-in-house-seminar/#comment-79516</guid>
		<description>[...] couple of recent posts (this one and this one) prompted some gnashing of teeth and rending of clothes by commenters frustrated at [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] couple of recent posts (this one and this one) prompted some gnashing of teeth and rending of clothes by commenters frustrated at [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Art</title>
		<link>http://www.adamsdrafting.com/2009/01/14/feedback-from-in-house-seminar/comment-page-1/#comment-78796</link>
		<dc:creator>Art</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:43:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adamsdrafting.com/2009/01/14/feedback-from-in-house-seminar/#comment-78796</guid>
		<description>I think that what will speed this process up far quicker than any enlightenment through knowledge is the changing face of law.

Clients increasingly seem to care more about clearer, shorter documents and lower costs. I think that these goals are entirely compatible, but they require both increased commoditisation to the extent possible, and better and more efficient technical drafting skills to the extent law cannot be commoditised.

It won&#039;t be too long before anyone drafting lengthy, obscure, head-fugging prose in contracts at the leading edge of commercial law is going to find themselves out of a job. To a client, the &quot;mystique of the profession&quot; is something they have to tolerate, not something they respect. As soon as they find a lawyer who can make their life easy while delivering the same quality, they&#039;ll move on without a second thought.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that what will speed this process up far quicker than any enlightenment through knowledge is the changing face of law.</p>
<p>Clients increasingly seem to care more about clearer, shorter documents and lower costs. I think that these goals are entirely compatible, but they require both increased commoditisation to the extent possible, and better and more efficient technical drafting skills to the extent law cannot be commoditised.</p>
<p>It won&#8217;t be too long before anyone drafting lengthy, obscure, head-fugging prose in contracts at the leading edge of commercial law is going to find themselves out of a job. To a client, the &#8220;mystique of the profession&#8221; is something they have to tolerate, not something they respect. As soon as they find a lawyer who can make their life easy while delivering the same quality, they&#8217;ll move on without a second thought.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Adams</title>
		<link>http://www.adamsdrafting.com/2009/01/14/feedback-from-in-house-seminar/comment-page-1/#comment-78165</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Adams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:48:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adamsdrafting.com/2009/01/14/feedback-from-in-house-seminar/#comment-78165</guid>
		<description>Anonymous Pest: I&#039;m much more placid about this than you are. Probably because you, as a practicing lawyer, are constantly doing deals based on crappy contracts. Me, I get to say my piece, then move on. I&#039;m not seeking to cram anything down anyone&#039;s throat.

I&#039;m also optimistic about change. On one side, we have order, in the form of &lt;em&gt;MSCD&lt;/em&gt;; on the other, we have chaos. People will opt for order, although they may not get to enjoy its benefits until the Old Guard dies out. In that regard, I&#039;m encouraged by the strong sales of &lt;em&gt;MSCD&lt;/em&gt;.

I think of the drastic inconsistencies in English spelling. Once dictionaries were introduced in the mid 1600s, spelling started to stabilize, and by the 1800s most words had set spellings.

But I&#039;m not suggesting that we&#039;ll have to wait 150 years for progress! For one thing, I expect that document assembly will help propagate decent contract language more quickly than would be the case if we waited for the world to change one lawyer at a time.

Ken</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anonymous Pest: I&#8217;m much more placid about this than you are. Probably because you, as a practicing lawyer, are constantly doing deals based on crappy contracts. Me, I get to say my piece, then move on. I&#8217;m not seeking to cram anything down anyone&#8217;s throat.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m also optimistic about change. On one side, we have order, in the form of <em>MSCD</em>; on the other, we have chaos. People will opt for order, although they may not get to enjoy its benefits until the Old Guard dies out. In that regard, I&#8217;m encouraged by the strong sales of <em>MSCD</em>.</p>
<p>I think of the drastic inconsistencies in English spelling. Once dictionaries were introduced in the mid 1600s, spelling started to stabilize, and by the 1800s most words had set spellings.</p>
<p>But I&#8217;m not suggesting that we&#8217;ll have to wait 150 years for progress! For one thing, I expect that document assembly will help propagate decent contract language more quickly than would be the case if we waited for the world to change one lawyer at a time.</p>
<p>Ken</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous Pest</title>
		<link>http://www.adamsdrafting.com/2009/01/14/feedback-from-in-house-seminar/comment-page-1/#comment-78156</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous Pest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 15:56:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adamsdrafting.com/2009/01/14/feedback-from-in-house-seminar/#comment-78156</guid>
		<description>Have you considered how much of this constant demand to stick with traditional-drafting is nothing more than an attempt to protect the mystique of the profession (and thereby justify our exhorbitant rates)? You keep citing a justification for your method as making it easier for people to read the contracts. Should we consider that maybe making it more difficult for others to read is exactly what these sorts of people are all about?

We can&#039;t come to a consensus on how to do these things if we&#039;re all working towards conflicting ends. And, I can&#039;t suggest how there&#039;s an easy way to call these &#039;mystique of the profession&#039; people out on their strategies (and I suspect some of them haven&#039;t even consciously realized what they&#039;re doing and why). Sadly, many of those people are also the ones pulling the strings in our law firms, so we sit and watch our profession frittering away its (very thin in the first place) goodwill with its public while others worry about their short-term profitability checks.

(Do you sense that I have little hope for fixing the circumstances you describe in any BigLaw (and even MidLaw) setting? It&#039;s only likely to occur in those settings where like-minded lawyers have struck out on their own and determined as a matter of policy from the start that they aren&#039;t going to fall into the old paradigm of using the same form of agreement that was used in 1963, and they&#039;re going to be willing to sell their policy to their clients as a benefit. And, they need to be willing to cede the mystique and trust that people will still see value in their services even after the clientele can actually understand what it is that we do!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have you considered how much of this constant demand to stick with traditional-drafting is nothing more than an attempt to protect the mystique of the profession (and thereby justify our exhorbitant rates)? You keep citing a justification for your method as making it easier for people to read the contracts. Should we consider that maybe making it more difficult for others to read is exactly what these sorts of people are all about?</p>
<p>We can&#8217;t come to a consensus on how to do these things if we&#8217;re all working towards conflicting ends. And, I can&#8217;t suggest how there&#8217;s an easy way to call these &#8216;mystique of the profession&#8217; people out on their strategies (and I suspect some of them haven&#8217;t even consciously realized what they&#8217;re doing and why). Sadly, many of those people are also the ones pulling the strings in our law firms, so we sit and watch our profession frittering away its (very thin in the first place) goodwill with its public while others worry about their short-term profitability checks.</p>
<p>(Do you sense that I have little hope for fixing the circumstances you describe in any BigLaw (and even MidLaw) setting? It&#8217;s only likely to occur in those settings where like-minded lawyers have struck out on their own and determined as a matter of policy from the start that they aren&#8217;t going to fall into the old paradigm of using the same form of agreement that was used in 1963, and they&#8217;re going to be willing to sell their policy to their clients as a benefit. And, they need to be willing to cede the mystique and trust that people will still see value in their services even after the clientele can actually understand what it is that we do!)</p>
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