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	<title>Comments on: Drafting Without Punctuation?</title>
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		<title>By: Mark Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.adamsdrafting.com/2009/11/06/drafting-without-punctuation/comment-page-1/#comment-93491</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 20:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adamsdrafting.com/?p=1857#comment-93491</guid>
		<description>And this touches on a point that irritates me to buggery:

When I type &quot;the splodge, that...&quot; or &quot;the splodge which...&quot;, Mr Gates&#039; grammar police insist on the AmE usage, which doesn&#039;t allow for either of these comma arrangements.  In this instance, BrE is different (albeit probably less &quot;correct&quot;) than AmE.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And this touches on a point that irritates me to buggery:</p>
<p>When I type &#8220;the splodge, that&#8230;&#8221; or &#8220;the splodge which&#8230;&#8221;, Mr Gates&#8217; grammar police insist on the AmE usage, which doesn&#8217;t allow for either of these comma arrangements.  In this instance, BrE is different (albeit probably less &#8220;correct&#8221;) than AmE.</p>
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		<title>By: Geoff Pullum</title>
		<link>http://www.adamsdrafting.com/2009/11/06/drafting-without-punctuation/comment-page-1/#comment-93490</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff Pullum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 16:44:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adamsdrafting.com/?p=1857#comment-93490</guid>
		<description>The biggie in this area is of course the distinction between integrated and supplementary relative clauses.  The difference in truth conditions can be huge:

&lt;blockquote&gt;The company&#039;s managerial employees who work in Connecticut will not be eligible for this benefit.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

(The company has managers in all fifty states and wants to exclude only the people in Conecticut.)

&lt;blockquote&gt;The company&#039;s managerial employees, who work in Connecticut, will not be eligible for this benefit.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

(All managerial employees are excluded. And by the way, all of them are at the Hartford office.)

A lot of people might think that this is where the which/that rule of Fowler and so many others pays off with a big dividend. But it doesn&#039;t do the job even if you respect it. People have forgotten about cases where a preposition precedes the &quot;which&quot;, which makes replacement by &quot;that&quot; impossible:

&lt;blockquote&gt;This does not apply to state holidays on which no employees perform their regular duties.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

(It applies to all state holidays, except those very few when absolutely no one is at their post.)

&lt;blockquote&gt;This does not apply to state holidays, on which no employees perform their regular duties.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

(It doesn&#039;t apply to any state holidays. And by the way, on state holidays nobody is working anyway.)

Your advice is exactly right: avoid being caught in a place where your only hope is to get a judge who correctly understands the punctuation rule and semantics for relative clauses. The examples above reflect the truth about English grammar; but God help you if you are forced to rely on the comma distinction and nothing else, because some damn fool will say he can&#039;t see the difference. So re-draft!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The biggie in this area is of course the distinction between integrated and supplementary relative clauses.  The difference in truth conditions can be huge:</p>
<blockquote><p>The company&#8217;s managerial employees who work in Connecticut will not be eligible for this benefit.</p></blockquote>
<p>(The company has managers in all fifty states and wants to exclude only the people in Conecticut.)</p>
<blockquote><p>The company&#8217;s managerial employees, who work in Connecticut, will not be eligible for this benefit.</p></blockquote>
<p>(All managerial employees are excluded. And by the way, all of them are at the Hartford office.)</p>
<p>A lot of people might think that this is where the which/that rule of Fowler and so many others pays off with a big dividend. But it doesn&#8217;t do the job even if you respect it. People have forgotten about cases where a preposition precedes the &#8220;which&#8221;, which makes replacement by &#8220;that&#8221; impossible:</p>
<blockquote><p>This does not apply to state holidays on which no employees perform their regular duties.</p></blockquote>
<p>(It applies to all state holidays, except those very few when absolutely no one is at their post.)</p>
<blockquote><p>This does not apply to state holidays, on which no employees perform their regular duties.</p></blockquote>
<p>(It doesn&#8217;t apply to any state holidays. And by the way, on state holidays nobody is working anyway.)</p>
<p>Your advice is exactly right: avoid being caught in a place where your only hope is to get a judge who correctly understands the punctuation rule and semantics for relative clauses. The examples above reflect the truth about English grammar; but God help you if you are forced to rely on the comma distinction and nothing else, because some damn fool will say he can&#8217;t see the difference. So re-draft!</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.adamsdrafting.com/2009/11/06/drafting-without-punctuation/comment-page-1/#comment-93488</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 07:28:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adamsdrafting.com/?p=1857#comment-93488</guid>
		<description>Ken, this one still lingers in some of the fustier backrooms of English legal practice.  Strangely, full stops (periods) seem to be allowed, but not other punctuation.  Even where it is not encountered directly, I sense a reticence about using punctuation among some draftsmen, as if folklore about the dangers of punctuation silently fills their dreams.

I would put &quot;no punctuation&quot; on about the same level as using the word &quot;witnesseth&quot; in contracts, or using engrossment paper with red lines down each margin (not sure if this one will mean anything to your US readers).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken, this one still lingers in some of the fustier backrooms of English legal practice.  Strangely, full stops (periods) seem to be allowed, but not other punctuation.  Even where it is not encountered directly, I sense a reticence about using punctuation among some draftsmen, as if folklore about the dangers of punctuation silently fills their dreams.</p>
<p>I would put &#8220;no punctuation&#8221; on about the same level as using the word &#8220;witnesseth&#8221; in contracts, or using engrossment paper with red lines down each margin (not sure if this one will mean anything to your US readers).</p>
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