<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Proprietary&#8221;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.adamsdrafting.com/2010/02/03/proprietary/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.adamsdrafting.com/2010/02/03/proprietary/</link>
	<description></description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 01:23:03 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=abc</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://www.adamsdrafting.com/2010/02/03/proprietary/comment-page-1/#comment-94795</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:10:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adamsdrafting.com/?p=2198#comment-94795</guid>
		<description>Be careful if the nondisclosure agreement requires the return of the confidential information upon request of the discloser. The recipient needs an archival copy in order to benchmark what was indeed received in the first place. Otherwise, if the recipeint wishes to later disclose some information arguably embraced by the confidential information, how can he make an assessment of whether the exceptions apply?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Be careful if the nondisclosure agreement requires the return of the confidential information upon request of the discloser. The recipient needs an archival copy in order to benchmark what was indeed received in the first place. Otherwise, if the recipeint wishes to later disclose some information arguably embraced by the confidential information, how can he make an assessment of whether the exceptions apply?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: D. C. Toedt</title>
		<link>http://www.adamsdrafting.com/2010/02/03/proprietary/comment-page-1/#comment-94774</link>
		<dc:creator>D. C. Toedt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 06:25:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adamsdrafting.com/?p=2198#comment-94774</guid>
		<description>Chris, about your two points:

1. I typically use &lt;em&gt;disclosure period&lt;/em&gt; to specify just what confidential information is protected under the Agreement.

2. Agreed - most nondisclosure agreements expressly put the burden of showing an exclusion on the receiving party.  (My usual language says, &lt;em&gt;(ii) is not shown to be within an exclusion stated in this Agreement&lt;/em&gt;; I typed it from memory and evidently left that part out.)  This makes sense - the disclosing party is in the best position to show that it made reasonable efforts to protect confidentiality, but it will have a hard time proving the absence of public disclosures, etc.  So the agreement will usually require the receiving party to show that a public disclosure, etc., has happened.  (What the receiving party might &lt;em&gt;not&lt;/em&gt; want to agree to is a requirement that such a showing be made by documentary evidence.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris, about your two points:</p>
<p>1. I typically use <em>disclosure period</em> to specify just what confidential information is protected under the Agreement.</p>
<p>2. Agreed &#8211; most nondisclosure agreements expressly put the burden of showing an exclusion on the receiving party.  (My usual language says, <em>(ii) is not shown to be within an exclusion stated in this Agreement</em>; I typed it from memory and evidently left that part out.)  This makes sense &#8211; the disclosing party is in the best position to show that it made reasonable efforts to protect confidentiality, but it will have a hard time proving the absence of public disclosures, etc.  So the agreement will usually require the receiving party to show that a public disclosure, etc., has happened.  (What the receiving party might <em>not</em> want to agree to is a requirement that such a showing be made by documentary evidence.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ken Adams</title>
		<link>http://www.adamsdrafting.com/2010/02/03/proprietary/comment-page-1/#comment-94772</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Adams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 20:02:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adamsdrafting.com/?p=2198#comment-94772</guid>
		<description>Chris: Garner&#039;s Modern American Usage says &quot;With few exceptions, the prefix &lt;em&gt;non-&lt;/em&gt; does not take a hyphen unless it is attached to a proper noun {non-European}.&quot; Please stay behind after class and write that out 100 times. Ken</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris: Garner&#8217;s Modern American Usage says &#8220;With few exceptions, the prefix <em>non-</em> does not take a hyphen unless it is attached to a proper noun {non-European}.&#8221; Please stay behind after class and write that out 100 times. Ken</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Chris Lemens</title>
		<link>http://www.adamsdrafting.com/2010/02/03/proprietary/comment-page-1/#comment-94771</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Lemens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 19:27:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adamsdrafting.com/?p=2198#comment-94771</guid>
		<description>D.C.:

Not bad. Two points (of which you are probably aware):

First, I like to nail down the part of the disclosure where the other side hands me information. I like to limit who it comes from—someone acting for the other party, so as to exclude situations where we are the one who obtains it on the other party&#039;s behalf.

Second, putting the requirement that the information not be subject to one of the exception into the definition of confidential information probably reverses the burden of proof. Most courts that I&#039;ve heard about say that the plaintiff fulfills the prima facie case by showing that the information is within the original definition and that the defendant has to plead and maybe prove the exception. Since the exceptions tend to be things that the defendant knows (from whom they got the information) or something where the plaintiff would have to prove a negative (this is not public information), that makes some sense (at least as a matter of pleading and coming forward with at least some evidence). I don&#039;t know what your construction would do to that.

Mike:

As an example: A published patent application is public. Sure, you gave it to them for convenience, but they can go get it themselves. Why would you care if they kept the copy you gave them?

Gene:

You might try &lt;em&gt;nonpublic&lt;/em&gt;. (Yeah, it ought ot have a hyphen, but that&#039;s a pain to type every time and you&#039;re creating a defined term.)

Chris</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>D.C.:</p>
<p>Not bad. Two points (of which you are probably aware):</p>
<p>First, I like to nail down the part of the disclosure where the other side hands me information. I like to limit who it comes from—someone acting for the other party, so as to exclude situations where we are the one who obtains it on the other party&#8217;s behalf.</p>
<p>Second, putting the requirement that the information not be subject to one of the exception into the definition of confidential information probably reverses the burden of proof. Most courts that I&#8217;ve heard about say that the plaintiff fulfills the prima facie case by showing that the information is within the original definition and that the defendant has to plead and maybe prove the exception. Since the exceptions tend to be things that the defendant knows (from whom they got the information) or something where the plaintiff would have to prove a negative (this is not public information), that makes some sense (at least as a matter of pleading and coming forward with at least some evidence). I don&#8217;t know what your construction would do to that.</p>
<p>Mike:</p>
<p>As an example: A published patent application is public. Sure, you gave it to them for convenience, but they can go get it themselves. Why would you care if they kept the copy you gave them?</p>
<p>Gene:</p>
<p>You might try <em>nonpublic</em>. (Yeah, it ought ot have a hyphen, but that&#8217;s a pain to type every time and you&#8217;re creating a defined term.)</p>
<p>Chris</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ken Adams</title>
		<link>http://www.adamsdrafting.com/2010/02/03/proprietary/comment-page-1/#comment-94770</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Adams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 15:42:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adamsdrafting.com/?p=2198#comment-94770</guid>
		<description>Mike: If a drafter wants to convey the meaning you suggest, they&#039;d be advised to articulate it rather than groping at the meaning with &lt;em&gt;proprietary&lt;/em&gt;.

Gene: You can use whatever word you want as long as you make it clear in the contract what that word means.

Ken</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike: If a drafter wants to convey the meaning you suggest, they&#8217;d be advised to articulate it rather than groping at the meaning with <em>proprietary</em>.</p>
<p>Gene: You can use whatever word you want as long as you make it clear in the contract what that word means.</p>
<p>Ken</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gene S.</title>
		<link>http://www.adamsdrafting.com/2010/02/03/proprietary/comment-page-1/#comment-94769</link>
		<dc:creator>Gene S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 15:25:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adamsdrafting.com/?p=2198#comment-94769</guid>
		<description>The main problem with using Confidential for us is that the we deal with multiple classified US Government contracts and the word &quot;Confidential&quot; has a specific meaning in the national security world.  We cannot use that word without a lot of confusion resulting from its mis-use so we use Proprietary only and insist that all of our NDAs use proprietary only.  The only other solution we had was to call it business confidential or add some other modifier, but this makes it open to even more interpretation.  Any suggestions or thoughts?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The main problem with using Confidential for us is that the we deal with multiple classified US Government contracts and the word &#8220;Confidential&#8221; has a specific meaning in the national security world.  We cannot use that word without a lot of confusion resulting from its mis-use so we use Proprietary only and insist that all of our NDAs use proprietary only.  The only other solution we had was to call it business confidential or add some other modifier, but this makes it open to even more interpretation.  Any suggestions or thoughts?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.adamsdrafting.com/2010/02/03/proprietary/comment-page-1/#comment-94768</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 14:50:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adamsdrafting.com/?p=2198#comment-94768</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s what I generally understand people to be thinking about &quot;proprietary:&quot; information that the receiving party would not otherwise have obtained but for the confidential information.  A good example is something like demographic or statistical information. It could also be something like a published or unpublished patent application. It could even be something as simple as the floor plan of building or bank, the location of security cameras, etc.

In those cases, the information may not be &quot;confidential&quot; or &quot;trade secret&quot; but that doesn&#039;t mean that the receiving party should be able to use the information for their own purpose, for the detriment of the other party, or for someone else.

The plain English justification might look like this: I&#039;m giving this information (or access) to you for my benefit, not yours, and I don&#039;t care if it doesn&#039;t meet someone&#039;s definition of confidential or trade secret because you wouldn&#039;t have it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s what I generally understand people to be thinking about &#8220;proprietary:&#8221; information that the receiving party would not otherwise have obtained but for the confidential information.  A good example is something like demographic or statistical information. It could also be something like a published or unpublished patent application. It could even be something as simple as the floor plan of building or bank, the location of security cameras, etc.</p>
<p>In those cases, the information may not be &#8220;confidential&#8221; or &#8220;trade secret&#8221; but that doesn&#8217;t mean that the receiving party should be able to use the information for their own purpose, for the detriment of the other party, or for someone else.</p>
<p>The plain English justification might look like this: I&#8217;m giving this information (or access) to you for my benefit, not yours, and I don&#8217;t care if it doesn&#8217;t meet someone&#8217;s definition of confidential or trade secret because you wouldn&#8217;t have it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: D. C. Toedt</title>
		<link>http://www.adamsdrafting.com/2010/02/03/proprietary/comment-page-1/#comment-94767</link>
		<dc:creator>D. C. Toedt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 13:32:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adamsdrafting.com/?p=2198#comment-94767</guid>
		<description>How about simply defining confidential information as &lt;em&gt;any information (i)&#160;that the disclosing party makes reasonable efforts to preserve in confidence and (ii)&#160;that is not within an exclusion stated in this Agreement&lt;/em&gt;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about simply defining confidential information as <em>any information (i)&nbsp;that the disclosing party makes reasonable efforts to preserve in confidence and (ii)&nbsp;that is not within an exclusion stated in this Agreement</em>?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://www.adamsdrafting.com/2010/02/03/proprietary/comment-page-1/#comment-94765</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 23:51:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adamsdrafting.com/?p=2198#comment-94765</guid>
		<description>I really never understood the insistence on using &lt;em&gt;proprietary&lt;/em&gt; in a CI definition or why others insist on including a long list of information that could be confidential (i.e. files, documents, software, etc.).

The important aspect of confidential information is that it is confidential and disclosed in such a way that the other party can readily identify it as confidential.  The marking requirement may not appear to be a problem for short term contracts where the NDA has a very short term (say &lt;1year) and survival is also very short.  But when CI obligations survive for a long period of time, the disclosure requirement becomes paramount to identifying information that needs to be protected as CI.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really never understood the insistence on using <em>proprietary</em> in a CI definition or why others insist on including a long list of information that could be confidential (i.e. files, documents, software, etc.).</p>
<p>The important aspect of confidential information is that it is confidential and disclosed in such a way that the other party can readily identify it as confidential.  The marking requirement may not appear to be a problem for short term contracts where the NDA has a very short term (say &lt;1year) and survival is also very short.  But when CI obligations survive for a long period of time, the disclosure requirement becomes paramount to identifying information that needs to be protected as CI.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: mark anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.adamsdrafting.com/2010/02/03/proprietary/comment-page-1/#comment-94764</link>
		<dc:creator>mark anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 20:53:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adamsdrafting.com/?p=2198#comment-94764</guid>
		<description>I agree with Chris and Ken, and with randomjohn, and Jim makes a good point about structuring the clause dealing with disclosure to govt bodies.

The &quot;proprietary&quot; wording in some US CDAs has always puzzled me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Chris and Ken, and with randomjohn, and Jim makes a good point about structuring the clause dealing with disclosure to govt bodies.</p>
<p>The &#8220;proprietary&#8221; wording in some US CDAs has always puzzled me.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

